NSW Where is the 3rd Sydney CBD?

Discussion in 'Where to Buy' started by qonyx_sydney, 27th Jul, 2015.

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  1. qonyx_sydney

    qonyx_sydney Well-Known Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    There is pretty clear consensus that the vision for Parramatta is being built as Sydney's 2nd CBD so no issues there.

    There are a bunch of large other centres in Sydney that would like to claim the title of the 3rd CBD (ie. Blacktown, Chatswood, Hurstville, Bankstown, Liverpool).

    What do PCers think of this, or is this just developers spruiking their wares to lift sales.

    What sparked my interest in this is the following video i cam across that aired tonight on 7 news

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/29062803/the-changing-face-of-liverpool/?cmp=st

    Note: I have a PPOR and an IP in the Liverpool 'district' so i have a vested interest ;-)

    Thanks,
    Q
     
    qonyx_sydney, 27th Jul, 2015
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  2. qonyx_sydney

    qonyx_sydney Well-Known Member

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    qonyx_sydney, 27th Jul, 2015
    #2
  3. Mick C

    Mick C Well-Known Member

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    I think Macquaire Park Or Chatswood....follow closely by Liverpool.

    For it to be the "3rd CBD" it has to have a massive job following/hub..
     
    Mick C, 27th Jul, 2015
    #3
  4. teg499

    teg499 Well-Known Member

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    More good news for Liverpool and Western Sydney!! :)
     
    teg499, 27th Jul, 2015
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  5. DaveM

    DaveM Well-Known Member

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    And yet what of North Sydney :)
     
    DaveM, 27th Jul, 2015
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  6. qonyx_sydney

    qonyx_sydney Well-Known Member

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    qonyx_sydney, 27th Jul, 2015
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  7. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    I don't know the Liverpool area very well - but I have always thought of Chatswood as the 3rd CBD - mostly from a business perspective rather than from a high density housing perspective (which Chatswood also has with massive development in recent years).

    Chatswood is a very significant commercial centre, with a lot of large office blocks - there are a huge number of jobs in the area.

    That being said - from a geographical perspective, I would think that Liverpool is an ideal location for additional investment and to develop into a major business hub rivalling Chatswood.

    If we were to one day get a high speed train network that linked somewhere like Liverpool with the city, I think any proximity benefit that Chatswood now has would be diminished significantly.
     
    Simon Hampel, 27th Jul, 2015
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  8. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    North Sydney is basically just an extension of the city isn't it?

    Doesn't especially solve any of the fundamental issues surrounding a congested city area like those more outer CBDs would.
     
    Simon Hampel, 27th Jul, 2015
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  9. JDP1

    JDP1 Well-Known Member

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    Someone on another thread once said brisbane is like an outer suburb of Sydney...so I vote for brisbane as the third cbd.
     
    JDP1, 27th Jul, 2015
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  10. qonyx_sydney

    qonyx_sydney Well-Known Member

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    That is definitely the one thing that Liverpool is missing, it doesn't have the jobs. I could be wrong but I believe that the largest private white collar employer is Ingham which i believe has a HQ office in Liverpool CBD.

    Compare that with MacquariePark/Ryde or Chatswood and I'm sure there would be many Medium size enterprises with significant white collar workers.
     
    qonyx_sydney, 27th Jul, 2015
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  11. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Macquarie Park / Ryde I don't really consider to be a CBD ... it's more like a huge business park than a "central" business district - too spread out and disparate.
     
    Simon Hampel, 27th Jul, 2015
    #11
  12. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

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    RetireRich101, 27th Jul, 2015
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  13. Mick C

    Mick C Well-Known Member

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    Def not north Sydney....soo many business are pulling out of north Sydney(why - i have no bloody idea...)

    North Sydney has a LOT of vacant and empty offices....
     
    Mick C, 27th Jul, 2015
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  14. Befuddled

    Befuddled Well-Known Member

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    Won't see a third CBD for a long while yet. If and when that happens, maybe Liverpool. Bella Vista could be a dark horse as well.

    Can't see Hurstville turning into any sort of CBD
     
    Befuddled, 27th Jul, 2015
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  15. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Why not? Any why Liverpool?
     
    Simon Hampel, 27th Jul, 2015
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  16. C-mac

    C-mac Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Simon, Chatswood will be the most likely 3rd CBD/employment node.

    I'd hazard a guess however that Liverpool will come up big once the nearby 2nd airport opens up. It'll stimulate interstate and of course international business in to the area.
     
    C-mac, 27th Jul, 2015
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  17. Befuddled

    Befuddled Well-Known Member

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    My personal view is it will take the best part of 10yrs for Parramatta to establish itself as the 2nd CBD. The roll out of infrastructure both in progress and in the pipeline will occur very gradually. Unfortunately, having lived in Sydney most of my life, things just don't seem to get done very quickly. Certainly the political setup is partially to blame with each side of the government more interested in staying or getting into power than doing what's needed.

    Big companies will not fully commit to the area until the foundations are in place. For example, there are no plans for rolling out of NBN despite poor internet speeds:

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-download-speeds/story-fngr8huy-1227121818149

    In my opinion the area will only live up to its billing once the big multinationals come to the party, creating jobs and business in the area. Due to the current economic climate I can't really see a 3rd CBD being formed at the same time, it's just too risky. The 2nd airport may bring more interest to Western Sydney as a possible candidate for a 3rd CBD far into the future though. Liverpool is a bit of a guess but geographically it becomes more appealing once Parramatta is established.

    Chatswood is a pain in the backside to access from the south and west which is where most people live. Difficult by train, even harder by car. To me that makes it less viable as a 3rd CBD.
     
    Befuddled, 27th Jul, 2015
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  18. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    Me, post #79 of the epic "QLD Brisbane looks good in 2015." Thread. Lol

    But in all seriousness, I'd pick Chatswood. I used to work there way back in 1999-2000. But only casually.

    But more recently I've worked in Rhodes, North Strathfield, North Sydney, the CBD, Macquarie Park and North Sydney all on a full time basis, unlike Chatswood. And now Parramatta. I like Parramatta. Close to home, and everything is there. No outdoor gym equipment though... Wherever I work must be accessible from Epping, preferably without driving. Which will rule out Bankstown, Liverpool, Hurstville. And Blacktown requires driving unless I want to change trains or rely on very few buses. And there's not really professional jobs there anyway.
     
    Gockie, 27th Jul, 2015
    #18
  19. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    i don't think there will be "a third cbd" but multiple third cbd's. The way the city is evolving and developing surely governments and council know they cannot concentrate the population to a few areas, the changing p'matta to the second cbd shows it can and will work to spread out the cbd's over multiple areas.
    P'matta staked it's claim as number 2 but over the next 5, 10, 15 years the other suburbs mentioned will step up. Also there is gosford and the gong as outsiders which have the population travelling to syd it makes sense to keep the workforce/jobs there.
    Underdog atm would be the riff (Penrith) they have a few things happening plus council is being proactive with promoting and changing the area, it's becoming the "adventure capital" (short term foothold) have snuck up more than people have noticed i think. Plus throw in an airport and the people will come.
    Bella vista to the north, Penrith and Liverpool to the south
     
    bob shovel, 28th Jul, 2015
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  20. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    The thing is - Chatswood already is a CBD ... the key word in that acronym being BUSINESS.

    Read the Wikipedia description for Liverpool vs Chastwood (hardly authoritative I know, but I think it makes an important point):

    Liverpool, New South Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Commercial area

    Liverpool is currently the major city centre in South Western Sydney. The city centre has a Hoddle Grid layout with many little laneways and arcades, similar to that of Melbourne. The main strip is Macquarie Street which contains numerous small cafes. In recent times the extension of the Westfield shopping centre has seen many new fashion stores come in.

    The main shopping area is centred on Macquarie Street, with Westfield Liverpool, a major shopping centre at the northern end. The northern end of the city has been zoned for high density residential apartments. The southern end of the city is zoned for high density commercial developments. Liverpool has a large teaching hospital, two technical colleges and many shopping centres and office buildings. The private hospital operator Healthscope owns the Sydney Southwest Private Hospital in Liverpool.

    Chatswood, New South Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Economy

    Chatswood is one of the North Shore’s major commercial and retail districts. The Australian headquarters of CSR Limited, Smith's Snackfood, Abigroup, Coffey, Pepsico and Carter Holt Harvey as well as offices of Nortel Networks, Optus, Lenovo, NEC, Leighton Contractors and Cisco Systems are located in Chatswood. A number of high-density residential towers are also located in Chatswood.

    (emphasis mine).

    My point being that there already is a large corporate presence in Chatwood - it already does function as a Central Business District - in the same way that Parramatta already is a CBD as well - Parramatta already has a large business / government presence with a significant amount of corporate office space (not just small business).

    Yes, Chastwood is a pain to access from the southern and western suburbs - but so is Liverpool from the North and East - it is a long way out from the dense population centres of the inner city and north shore.

    The Epping - Parramatta rail link originally proposed was going to really help accessibility of Chatswood from the western suburbs - cutting out a huge amount of time taken to get to Chatswood via Central Station or swapping trains at Strathfield and again at Epping.

    But that's not really the point - Chatswood works as a CBD because it is on the train line serviced by some of the most rapidly growing and densely populated suburban areas in Sydney. The sheer volume of new high rise (30+ storey!) apartment blocks going up in Chatswood and St Leonards is staggering, plus there has been years of infill development all along the entire rail / Pacific Highway corridor from North Sydney all the way up to Hornsby.

    This is the catchment area for people working in Chatswood - not people living in Camden, Pentith, or the Shire.

    But that being said - I'm only really talking technicalities - by my definition, Chatwood already is a Central Business district because of the volume of large business already based there. However, I wouldn't necessarily advocate investing there - I'm not sure there's much growth to be had compared to somewhere with a lot of redevelopment potential like Liverpool.

    The trick is actually getting the investment into the area. Unless they focus on attracting large corporate business to the area, it will never become a true "CBD", rather just a large residential and retail hub like we already have in many centres around the city.

    I guess that's kind of my point - don't confuse a CBD with a large residential/retail hub - they are not the same thing.
     
    Simon Hampel, 28th Jul, 2015
    #20
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